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Coach Mikki and Friends
The Most Courageous Thing You Can Do.. Is Be Yourself! - Coach Mikki
C'mon in and make yourself comfortable! Grab a cup of coffee and listen in as our Circle of Friends Guests share their stories! We hope to inspire you, make you laugh and maybe teach you something new.
Come as you are, no perfection is needed!
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Coach Mikki and Friends
Unlocking Culinary Secrets: A Journey with David Page - S4E14
What if you could uncover the secrets behind the careers of top culinary professionals? Join me, Coach Mikki, as I sit down with the remarkable David Page, president and executive producer of Page Productions, to discuss his journey from radio to television and his latest venture into podcasting with "Culinary Characters Unlocked." Discover David's passion for storytelling, particularly through engaging conversations with chefs and restaurateurs, and listen as he shares an enchanting anecdote about his first guest, the legendary Nancy Silverton, a pioneer of California cuisine and artisanal bread in America.
Our conversation also navigates the richness of regional cuisines, revealing how modern transportation and technology have made local flavors accessible far beyond their origins. Reflect on the significance of experiencing local foods in their native settings, like the unique taste of Jersey Shore oysters or South Georgia shrimp. Insights from my chat with Adrian Miller, a scholar of Southern and African-American food, provide a deeper understanding of Southern cuisine's diversity, from German-inspired Tennessee barbecue sauces to African-American-developed whole hog barbecue. This episode emphasizes the cultural stories embedded in the foods we cherish.
The adventure concludes with a tantalizing journey through the South, exploring the regional differences in beloved dishes like grits and cream of wheat, and a dive into the history of Gullah Geechee cuisine. Alongside fascinating travel stories, including a memorable dining experience in Ethiopia and a quirky tale about NATO's smallest army in Luxembourg, this episode is a testament to the vibrant world of food and culture. Get a sneak peek into David's upcoming podcast and the incredible guests he will feature, and don't forget to check out his website for more details.
We look forward to seeing you succeed! - www.KeepOnSharing.com - Code - KOS
www.CoachMikkiandFriends.com
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Hey, I'm Coach Mickey and I'm so glad that you've joined us, and if this is your first time joining us, come on in and make yourself comfortable, and for those of you that join us on a regular basis, we are so glad that you do. And thank you so much for reaching out to my guests. I know they appreciate it and I appreciate it because I have my guests on, so you have the opportunity to collaborate and connect with these people and see what they're doing, and I'm excited because today is going to be so much fun again, as we always have. However, this guest, David Page, has been on my podcast and he has not been yet to be here on our YouTube channel, so this is going to be fun and he's got some new and exciting things to talk about and what he's doing, and I love this. I love to bring on somebody who is moving on to a new venture and we can give them that support and help them.
Speaker 1:And if you're not familiar who David Page is, I'm going to tell you a little bit about him. David Page is the president and executive producer of Page Productions. Host and executive producer, Culinary Characters Unlocked. He is an Emmy winning, international acclaimed journalist, executive producer of food and loves to travel and he is the creator on beloved, groundbreaking show of Diners, Drives, Dives and Diner. Oh my gosh, David, I'm just going to jump right in.
Speaker 2:Diners, drive-ins and Dives there you go.
Speaker 1:Thank you, Put a temp though I mean mean you know, you got a couple of the words right yeah, I know I'm having one of those days first day with my new tongue um I hope you got the extended warranty at my age I think it's running out oh god anyway, the reason I have you on here today is because I'm really excited because you are going to be launching a new podcast that is going to be so much fun, and it's on my favorite subject, which is working with culinary and working with different chefs and chefs that are upcoming, and I'm excited to hear about this. So tell me, how did this transpire? How did this get started?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, thank you for having me back Always a pleasure. It got started because it's the next thing I've. You know I've been doing this for God knows how long and I started in radio. I moved into television, then I wrote a book the new frontier is podcasting, which is really. The new frontier is podcasting, which is really. I say I started in television, I started in local radio and podcasting is local radio 2.0.
Speaker 2:It's being able to take journeys in your mind, painting the pictures yourself, but it also allows for a less structured conversation in which you can go deeper into things. You know, I've been speaking to chefs for years journalistically, but when you put a chef on a show like Diners, it's to discuss what's going on in front of you. I wrote my book. I talked to chefs, but it was about specific foods or foodways. I find chefs to be, and restaurateurs and other people in the culinary world to be fascinating people and I wanted an opportunity to just shoot the bull with them. Think of sitting in a European restaurant and occupying that table after you're done eating, a thing you don't get to do much in the States because they want to turn the tables. There's more of a tradition of leisurely dining in continental Europe and the conversation you can have at that point with someone especially if it's the chef or someone else in the culinary world that's where things get really interesting. You know, how'd you become a chef? Why'd you become a chef? What do you see going on in the world of food? And the stories are fascinating.
Speaker 2:One of the, in fact, the premier episode of the podcast dropping August 27th on every podcast platform will be, my guess will be Nancy Silverton, a legend in Los Angeles, the country and the world. Frankly, she is credited as one of the founding forces of California cuisine. She is often lauded for really turning Americans on to artisanal bread. She's won the James Beard Award for Best Chef, best Pastry Chef, and is owner of the best restaurant in America. Her current restaurant has a Michelin star. She's extraordinary.
Speaker 2:When I talked to her about her past, you know I said were you cooking growing up? The answer is no. She did not grow up as what we would today call a foodie. She got into the business because in college she developed a crush on the guy who was cooking in the dormitory, so she asked him for a job as a ploy to get together with him and begin a relationship. Well, the relationship didn't last very long, but she looked up one day and said you know, I could do this for a living, and that's how she became one of the world's greatest chefs. Said you know, I could do this for a living, and that's how she became one of the world's greatest chefs. It's that kind of story that I find fascinating.
Speaker 2:And there's something else, look. To succeed in the food business, it's necessary to be passionate, and not just in general, although that doesn't hurt. It's necessary to be passionate about pleasing people, about making them happy. Because, look, if you want to find a tougher line of work, I suppose fighter pilot or ditch digger qualify, but this is physically demanding work. The chances of success are minimal. Restaurants fail left and right, a process deeply exacerbated by the pandemic and now deeply influenced by food prices. It's a tough way to make a living. You've really got to want to do this, and I find these people extremely interesting, and you will too when you listen to the podcast which, by the way, debuts August 27th on every popular platform. Culinary characters unlocked.
Speaker 1:I love it and you know I've always wondered that, because I know being a restaurant owner, just in general, takes a lot of time, commitment, you know, and now you throw the passion in there, and that really sets up for success. You know, I'm just like anything else, however, but to take something where you've started, you know, as her story, where she just started cooking and then realized she could make a life out of it and go on to make it into a career and then excel into becoming a Michelin star chef and then having a number one restaurant, I mean, that's a lot of work, time and commitment, and hearing those stories is always inspiring, you know, whether it's through the restaurant or that, but I do know for a fact that food is a very difficult career to be involved with. There's so many, so many different people available to do it. You have other guests that are coming on too. I mean and you said some of them were maybe upcoming, upcoming chefs and people that are working in this field.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I talked to Christina Lin, who won a 2020 for James Beard Award as best chef in the Midwest. She has two restaurants. She is the of vietnamese immigrants. She has a southeast asian restaurant in minneapolis which is not only I was going to say just, but I don't mean to demean the cuisine in any way it's not only vietnamese, it is her fusionistic take on foods from all over Southeast Asia, indonesia, thailand, yes, vietnam and it's for her work there that she just won the James Beard Award.
Speaker 2:She began in the food business with no experience in the food business, partnered with her husband, who had no experience in the food business, and they just decided one day let's get into the food business. So they looked around and decided to open a, a food truck. Uh, many successful brick and mortar start as a food truck because financially it's a hell of a lot easier, although the regulations in some places are still byzantine. They decided to start a food truck and they went looking for a cuisine to feature and they chose arepas, which are a generally South American, colombian, I think, peruvian cornmeal bund sandwich, and they made a go of that, turned that into a brick and mortar to go with that. Turn that into a brick and mortar. And then, because it's Minneapolis and a food truck doesn't really work in 30 below, they would spend the winters elsewhere.
Speaker 2:Uh, for example, backpacking one year through Southeast Asia and to some extent rediscovering her parents' cuisine although she ate plenty of it at home, but also discovering the cuisines of other countries. And she brought that back and decided yes, it's time to open something featuring that kind of food. And you know the difficulties in doing that are who the hell in Minneapolis has cooked Southeast Asian food? Every chef that comes in, as trained as they are, needs to be retrained from the beginning in an entirely different kind of cooking. It's not simple. You know there's this view that you throw some stuff in a wok or I guess wok is the more correct pronunciation throw in some coconut milk and ta-da, you got Southeast Asian cooking. It's not like that. It is a highly complex bunch of cuisines, I said to her.
Speaker 2:I said you know, let's talk Vietnam, let's talk Vietnam. Yes, I certainly know there was a North Vietnam and a South Vietnam, because I grew up with a draft number the last year they were drafting for the Vietnamese war and luckily I was not called. But all I know about Vietnamese culture is. There was North Vietnam, there was South Vietnam, now there's Vietnam, I said.
Speaker 2:But every country, every culture has more than a national cuisine. They have regional cuisines. You know, we talk here about Italian food generally, referring to the red sauce-based southern Italian stuff that came and it's wonderful food that came here with an early wave of Italian immigrants in the 1800s. In fact, the different regions of Italy all have different foods, as do the different regions of all countries, because initial regional cuisines are based on what grows there or what can be hunted there, and it's different in Calabria than it is in Venice. Well, it's the same in Vietnam, as Christina explained to me. Yes, there is a generally northern cuisine and there is a generally southern cuisine, but there are also individual cuisines, such as the mountainous regions or the Mekong Delta, where it's even more seafood-based than in the rest of the country. So one of the things I want to get into is, beyond what we, you know, there's more to Vietnamese cuisine than Pho and Banh Mi, and that's the kind of information that fascinates me.
Speaker 1:Well, I know you have traveled a lot of the world because in our prior podcast we had, we had covered a lot of that when you were, you know, from your first book and and I so I know that you had you're familiar with a lot of it, because you even shared a lot of those experiences from the foods that you had had an opportunity to, to take part of. And it makes a lot of sense because even for me, I've traveled a lot of the world, but also even just here in the United States, I mean, look, you've got Southern cuisine when you go to Southern Louisiana.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm going to back up Define Southern cuisine.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Very regional cuisines that differ by location.
Speaker 1:You're right. You're right, I by location, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2:I was going to say that I had an opportunity to have alligator.
Speaker 1:Well, you're not going to get alligator in California, but it's so it makes sense, like in every other country for the same thing. But what a gift to have someone who could take all those flavors and meats and spices and then present them and bring them to give you a true taste of that culture. You know, someplace you would never get a chance to experience it, and in Minnesota, my gosh. I mean, where are you going to get that in Minnesota? But how?
Speaker 2:wonderful. Well, but see, you're getting into interesting territory here, which is and remind me to go back and talk about Southern cuisine in my conversation with Adrian Miller but what you're seeing in the country now is, to some extent, a homogenization of regional cuisines, because it used to be that if you wanted Memphis barbecue, you pretty much had to go to Memphis, and if you wanted Central Texas brisket you had to go to Central Texas. But with freezing and air shipping and the Internet and growing mobility in the country when I say growing mobility, I mean over the past 75 years yeah, you can now get versions of what used to be regional out of those regions. And on the one hand, you know, if I live on the Jersey Shore, if I want some brisket, yes, I can go get it. It's not going to be anywhere near as good as the brisket that I get at Louie Miller's Barbecue in Taylor, texas, which is the best I've ever had. So it's you know what's better availability or perfection? Um, I still like the romance of eating what comes from a particular place in that particular place, and the chances are they're going to do it better. And and you know it's so unique to some people New Orleans is legendary for oysters.
Speaker 2:Well, it is, in my view, for some oyster dishes Fried oysters, barbecued oysters those are great out of the Gulf Coast, but if I'm eating oysters on the half shell, I find Gulf Coast oysters, because of the warmness of the water, to be less briny and less tasty than the oysters I can get right here off the Jersey Shore. Now what's hilarious is that when you go to happy hour around where I live, which is a tourist area, the local oysters the Delaware bays are up on the happy hour board for a buck each, and the imported oysters from the Pacific Northwest or the Gulf, those are two and three bucks. Well, the best oyster on the board is still the Delaware Bay because it's local and easily available, hence mildly cheaper. The tourists tend to go for the more expensive stuff that doesn't come from here. If you're someplace, eat what they produce. Don't eat shrimp up here. They're frozen and probably from Indonesia. Eat shrimp when you go to South Georgia or when you go to Louisiana.
Speaker 2:Again, we live in a tourist area. There is an active fishing port close to my home and we bring in here we I'm not the fishermen, but they bring in here the best scallops I've ever had. Starting this time of year, they bring tuna in here. I don't see tourists ordering local tuna, they don't know better, but it's phenomenal. I made pokey at home. In fact, this time my wife made it. I usually make it, but my wife made it out of local tuna and it was unbelievable. It was extraordinary. Eat local. Now let me. I remember you were going to tell me you didn't tell me to jump back to Adrian Miller.
Speaker 1:I was waiting for you to finish. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2:I just kept going Okay.
Speaker 1:I love your passion. I love your passion.
Speaker 2:I love your passion, I care deeply and I hope it comes across in the podcast. Adrian Miller was a Clinton administration official, a lawyer, a scholar, who turned his scholarly interests to food, specifically the food of the South and the subset within that of African-American food, and he takes me on a phenomenal journey through the variations of both, and they're not necessarily the same, although African-American cooking clearly underpins virtually all of what became more broadly known as Southern cooking. And he's fascinating, he you know it's the stories of how food developed in the South cover so much territory from a barbecue sauce invented in Tennessee by German immigrants so that they could be reminded of the tangy flavors of German dishes like sauerbraten, to whole hog barbecue, which was pretty much developed by enslaved African-Americans, to the differences between low country cooking in the Carolinas and New Orleans, cooking which to some extent starts with similar ingredients but ends up significantly different because of the way the dishes evolved over time and because of specifically which ingredients were available where.
Speaker 1:It's funny how you were saying this, and a story came to mind for me, based on the different regions that you're from. I'm originally from New York and at the time the person I was married to was from the South. Well, the first time I went to his house and I had met his parents, we had gone back, it was in Atlanta they had made breakfast. Now, I was not familiar with grits, I was only familiar with cream of wheat. So here he's his family serves grits. Now, in the South, in grits you use butter and salt. Well, unbeknownst to me, you know, unbeknownst to me, and you know, unbeknown to me, I've grabbed the sugar and the milk, and I thought they would be.
Speaker 2:I thought their heads were going to explode by the way, there are places, there are places in the south, where, where you do put sugar in grits, apparently not where you were, you're talking about, about many, many, many years ago.
Speaker 1:So I think everybody's evolved now, but just to tell you the difference. And then I've come to love. I love shrimp and grits oh my gosh, I had that down in Savannah and then you get that low boil where they just take that big pot and they just dump it on your table and you're like you just share it family style and I love it. See, this is why I love talking to somebody like you, because you've experienced, you've traveled, you know this, and I think people just they don't get out of their comfort zone enough when it comes to food.
Speaker 1:They want the same thing, the same place, and it's like, come on, try something different.
Speaker 2:But what's fascinating is how much I don't know Talking to Adrian Miller, for example. Was it Adrian, or wait a second, let me much I don't know Talking to Adrian Miller, for example. Was it Adrian? Or wait a second, let me. I don't think it was. Who was I talking to? Give me one? Oh, I think. Where is his name? Oh, I'm so sorry, I've lost track of who it was.
Speaker 1:Come back to it.
Speaker 2:Okay, no, talking to an expert on gulagichi cooking, which really is the foundation of cooking in Charleston and the Lowcountry, I expressed my belief that shrimp and grits was a quintessential gulagichi dish and he said well, we eat it. But, frankly, if you walk into a gulagichi home which simply means they are descendant of enslaved peoples you're more likely to be offered fish and grits Fried fish served atop grits. That shrimp and grits yes, they're popular, but that was never. Grits yes, they're popular, but that that was never the keystone dish, even though it's now been adopted increasingly by white Southerners as, um, you know, a cornerstone meal. And when I was in Charleston not that long ago, I enjoyed shrimp and grits, not having heard yet about fish and grits. Uh, but that's on my bucket list for next time.
Speaker 1:That's pretty awesome, I would say. Out of all the places that you've traveled and all the food that you've had an opportunity to experience, what would you say is your favorite and your favorite ones that you've actually had?
Speaker 2:Well, look, there is the old analogy you know who's your favorite child? Now I only have one child, so that's simple. But I can't pick a favorite, but I can discuss some extraordinary moments.
Speaker 1:Very great.
Speaker 2:Okay, of a rather spicy meat stew or braise, that you picked up with these kind of spongy pancakes, sort of the way you would eat a Mexican breakfast. Let's say that was pretty extraordinary. Not only was the food amazing, but I've never been to a more physically interesting or prettier place than Ethiopia, so that was pretty cool. We had a meal in Luxembourg. We were I was with NBC News at the time and was looking for a way to tell. I got assigned a preview story for a NATO summit and that. Just Google that and it'll, and just a big warning sign will flash. Boring, boring, boring. Because every story about a NATO summit is done out of Brussels and you talk about the political BS. I had no interest. So what I said to myself was and this was shortly after Germany had unified and solidified its place as a unified country in NATO I thought to myself okay, we're going to do a NATO summit.
Speaker 2:Who is the smallest army in NATO? Turned out that was Luxembourg. The army was so small, they only had 600 members. The guy in charge of it was a colonel, they didn't even have a general, and the minister, the defense minister, had two jobs. He was also the agriculture minister. So I said hey, fred, hold on, my dog is blocked in getting here. Come on, fred, here you go, there you go, you can do it. I'll move the green screen. Come on, freddy, okay, the world's cutest beagle. Well, there he is, okay. Um, and it turned out the defense minister was the agriculture minister. So I said let's go see what the story is with nato's smallest army.
Speaker 2:Uh, and we went there and, like like we were with the defense minister while he was being the agriculture minister, on, like the dairy day parade, he was on a float throwing small cartons of milk to the audience. And it was a legitimate story, because what I learned there was that the Luxembourgers, having been overrun by the Germans in World War II, weren't so thrilled with the idea of Germany as part of NATO. And you know, they pointed out so this isn't all so great. So there was a political element to the story. Um, anyway, we're shooting and it was great, and we're exhausted, we're tired, I don't know why we're covered with mud, I don't know where we've been that day, and driving back from the French border to Luxembourg city, and you're thinking to yourself could this story get any longer? Driving back from the French border to Luxembourg city. We're hungry and we see a sign for a restaurant. So it's me, my correspondent and uh and our crew sounding and uh, picture. And we pull up this kind of private driveway to an old stone building. We walk in and I suddenly realized we have made a big mistake. This is as white tablecloth a restaurant as you're going to find. We're in mud-covered jeans. This isn't going to work and I'm thinking maybe we should leave. And the owner sees us and comes out. And the owner is an expatriate from Tucson who was so thrilled to see us that he delivered one of the finest meals of my life, complete with his own private stock champagne. That was a very special experience.
Speaker 2:I had one in Hong Kong, and my work was Europe, africa and the Middle East. I went to Hong Kong with my wife and daughter for the Beijing Olympics, the equestrian games of those Olympics, which I think was 2016,. But I got to double check. Anyway, the equestrian games were held in Hong Kong, the illusion being the explanation being so that all of China could be included. The reality is no one was taking a million dollar horse into mainland China for fear of equine illness. Anyway, and my daughter not at Olympic level, but was a successful, competitive equestrian. So we went to Hong Kong for the games.
Speaker 2:Anyway, while we're there, I decide we need to find a restaurant. No visitor has ever been in A truly local place and I convinced the concierge at the hotel that I knew what I was doing. I was serious, and he sent us off to a place. We got there and the entrance was down a flight of stairs and you walk in and it's this massive room filled with communal tables. We're the only Caucasians in the place. It's a cacophony of was it Mandarin? I'm not sure what Chinese dialect was mostly spoken in Hong Kong, anyway.
Speaker 2:So we find ourselves a seat at a table and we finally get noticed and served. Now the first thing they bring to your table is some bowls with tepid water, a bowl with tepid water in it and some spoons or bowls with, anyway, the idea being that you are supposed to wash your own spoon in this bowl of tepid water. Ok, I'll take the risk. Water. Okay, I'll take the risk. Then what it turns out to be is it's like a dim sum parlor in the United States, only massive.
Speaker 2:I say the United States, new York, philly, san Francisco well, you know places with significant Chinatowns and people are coming around with the wicker baskets full of dim sum and we're pointing and we're having a great time. Wicker baskets full of dim sum, and we're pointing and we're having a great time, and one basket comes by and I point at it and suddenly from the table behind me and to my right, an elderly gentleman pops up and says and now no one has spoken to us. No, no, no guests there. This guy speaks up and says and I quote that not for you. Now, of course, and first of all, thank you, sir, for trying to protect me from making a gustatory mistake, because it's pretty clear, americans are very, very timid when it comes to food choices.
Speaker 2:But now I had to try it. It turns out it was duck foot, which ain't my favorite, but it was fine. I mean, it had a unique texture, not a whole lot of flavor. I mean, duck foot and eggplant are the same thing in that they're relatively tasteless and they serve as a flavor delivery system for something else. But the moment of this guy trying to guide me away from something he presumed I would not like. How do you get a better meal than that?
Speaker 1:That's awesome. I love it. Oh, can I throw in one more? Yes, absolutely. You know what Actually I'm going to give you. We got five minutes. I'm going to let you wrap up the last five minutes and I definitely have to have you back. I want to have you back to share some more stories.
Speaker 2:I would love to come back.
Speaker 1:Thank you, and also what you're doing, because and again give a shout out about your podcast before we wrap it up and then tell your story, because I want people to be able to reach out to you, because I know they're going to want to hear more, especially with what you're sharing here.
Speaker 2:I would be delighted to come back. Ok, quick story. I was in Iraq before the first Iraq war. I was there for a long time. The food was awful Of course it's Iraq. The food was awful of course it's Iraq. The government throws me out before the war starts, which I was disappointed about. But they kicked me out and back in the day they were loose about travel. So I booked my travel through the Rome Bureau and I said listen, I'm dead. I want to stop in Rome for a couple of days. On the way back to my home base in Frankfurt, could you book me in to the Hassler, which at the time was one of the top 10 hotels in the world? It's the one at the top of the Spanish steps. Keep an eye on the clock. Cut me off if I have to.
Speaker 2:You're good, you're good. Anyway, I said please tell them that I have been living without vegetables for quite a while, without vegetables for quite a while. And after I check in could they deliver a caprese to my room? You know caprese, sliced tomato and mozzarella and basil. So I check into the Hassler, which is just an extraordinary hotel, and I get to my room and seconds later they wheel in a room service cart with the biggest silver platter I've ever seen in my life and they take this filigree top off and it is the biggest caprese I've ever seen. And I think to myself I can't possibly eat this. But it was the freshest mozzarella mozzarella, to be correct and the freshest Italian tomatoes and I gorged the whole thing down. I had tomato juice. It was perfect.
Speaker 2:Now my podcast Culinary Characters Unlocked. You can get it at culinarycharactersunlockedcom or any of your favorite podcast platforms, including, of course, apple and YouTube. And some of the early guests. I've got Dan Barber, who is the absolute cutting edge of redefining American eating at this point. I've got Drew Nieporent, who partnered with Robert De Niro to open Nobu and Tribeca Grill. I've got Marvin Lender, one of the three brothers who brought the bagel to all of America. I've got Tony Gemignani, a 13-time international pizza winner. I've got great people and I've got some people you haven't heard of that you're going to want to look for after you hear them talk to me. That's Culinary Characters Unlocked twice a week. First episode, august 27th. Did I get in before the clock ran out?
Speaker 1:You are good, you are good I am.
Speaker 1:I'm excited for you. I think it's going to be wonderful. I'm definitely going to be listening to your podcast because again you are, you're covering my food. I mean, it was one of the great things and plus, to have all these wonderful people on. Please, please, please, everybody, reach out. All the links will be down below If you're looking at the YouTube channel to reach out to David and we know where his podcast is and where you can find it, along with also his website, and then if you are listening to this on Coach, mickey and Friends, all of that will be into the description. As you guys know, click where you can see the link when you click on his name and I'll take you right to where you need to go to hear more of David Page. So, david, thank you so much for being with us today. I am looking forward to having you back. I'm looking forward to hearing your podcast, seeing your success. Thank you so much for being here.
Speaker 2:Becky, thanks for having me Always a pleasure. I'd be delighted to come back.
Speaker 1:All right, you guys. Thanks again for being here. I look forward to seeing you again on our next podcast. Until then, remember, the most courageous thing you can do is be yourself. Until then, we'll see you.